Heather Jacobs, the head coach of women’s basketball at Wagner College, sits down with us in this episode of the 35,000 feet podcast and gives us insight into her journey as a basketball coach. She shares life lessons learned through basketball, how she got her start in coaching, one thing no one knows about her, and more!

In this episode, we discuss:

• How this past season went for Wagner College Women’s Basketball team (0:20)

• How Coach Jacobs got into coaching (6:11)

• Heather’s favorite travel experience (12:11)

• One thing that no one knows about Heather (15:15)

• Heather’s advice to athletes wanting to play in college (16:48)

• Heather’s next adventure (20:14)

The Past Season For Wagner College Women’s Basketball Team

Morgan: Hi, guys. Welcome back to our podcast, 35,000 Feet. I'm Morgan, and today I'm sitting down with Coach Heather. Thanks so much for joining us.

Coach Heather: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Morgan: Yeah. We're excited to have you. Well, I guess we can just start getting to know you better. Can you tell us about the current highs and lows of your season?

Coach Heather: Yeah, sure. There were a ton of them. I mean, to start off with, we ended our season losing to the number one seat in overtime. So, that was as emotional as it comes. There were moments when we won some close games, and then we lost some ones that we probably should have won. But that game, I was so proud of our team and our effort, and our execution was great. We were locked in on our game plan and we were winning and we were ahead. There were just so many things that were clicking. You could just feel it. You could feel their energy, you could feel their enthusiasm. It was amazing.

Then it was like a bad movie, bad break, and it ended up... We went into overtime, and then we're staying up, staying positive. We made some big buckets then and had some open looks, and then after that, we had to go back home. For me, to have to sit in a locker room with a group of young women that played their hearts out, and for it to end like that, it was really tough, but that's the game. Sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it doesn't. Early on in the season, we started off with a few seconds left, it's our ball, got to make a play, got to execute, drawing on the board situations. We've been here before, and we were able to come through in those last-minute moments.

As athletes and as coaches, you're so excited, you're on top of the world, and then two weeks later, you're on the verge of crying, wondering what's going on and how do we... Should have done this. As a coach, I'm always asking and looking... You always look at yourself. That's why you coach. I should've done this. I should've subbed here. How could I have been better? We don't ask our athletes to improve and just self-reflect if we're not going to do the same. We try to say never too high, never too low. But unfortunately, it's a lot of highs and a lot of lows.

Morgan: Yeah. No, for sure. I feel like sports relate so much to real life. You learn so many life lessons through that. Do you feel like your team's been learning a bunch of those through this sport?

Coach Heather: Oh my goodness. Yeah. We talk a lot about that. I mean, for me, that's what it's all about. Ultimately, these young women are given such an opportunity, and us as coaches too, in our platform. But you learn life lessons and you develop so many skills that are transferable. We were talking about, as a season, the grind goes, and I have some girls that want to be nurses and things. When you have a family and you have kids and you're working 12-hour shifts, let's not forget how lucky we are to do what we do and to be here. But those moments when things don't go your way... I was super proud. Our freshmen, after that loss, we had almost a seven-hour bus ride home, and they had to be... You have to be in class the next day, and those are the moments that everybody's watching.

Are you going to show up? Are you going to be there, and are you're going to put your foot forward? And they were, and that's important. Those are life lessons, when things don't go well and it's important that you show up and you're there and you're committed to what matters. You're here for your education and that, to me, was... It's important, those type of things. Any opportunity we have to take a tough moment and relate it to basketball... You might have made a mistake. Mistakes are going to happen in life, but the most important thing is that you own up to it and you look in the mirror and you look around to those people and say, "Hey, I was wrong, but I'm going to take responsibility and I'm going to be better." I think that's what the game does for us. It allows for so many opportunities for us to grow and to learn and to develop so many skills that can help us and help them as they grow into leaders of the future.

Morgan: Oh. I couldn't have even said that better myself. No, that's awesome. I can tell you're a great coach that cares about your team. I'm curious, what are some of your team's main takeaways from this season to take to next season, I guess?

Coach Heather: Yeah. Well, thank you. I do care about them. I'm secretly a big softie, but it's one of those things that... Everything matters. We had a really unique balance of some older players that battled some injuries and some young players. You can't wait till the fourth quarter. There are times during the year, because we can't be at a few comeback wins, that we waited until it was too late. We were capable, but we waited till it was too late. I think that one of the biggest takeaways is that you have to come ready from the beginning, our preparation.

As I've been here and our culture is changing and evolving, and our emphasis on certain things is... Like every coach, there's different ways to skin a cat and things that we prioritize. For them, it's locking in and remembering that that first play that you didn't box out is just as important as the last play you didn't box out, because two points are two points and all that stuff.

Somebody once said to me... I've been a believer that you don't have to lose to learn lessons, but it's super important that you learn no matter what, if you're winning or losing. But there were some really some heartbreaking losses for us this year, and that's the biggest takeaway for everybody, I think, is that you really have to be locked in no matter what point of the game it is. We say it all the time, and I think they could articulate that to you, no problem, but to have lived it and for it to hurt, I think that's really what they're going to remember, and mentor the young players and remind them as we continue on our journey.

Morgan: Yeah. Well, no, and it's true, and it's hard sometimes too, because your team goes so hard in practice. It so hard, and sometimes... I've played sports all my life. Sometimes records don't show the hard work that comes, but we can tell that your team is working hard and the effort that's going into your program. I've looked-

Coach Heather: Yeah, thanks. They are. We have a good group, we do. They come in and that's the thing, it's just... We're in a unique time, really uncertain time now, but we have really good people and we're excited to be back whenever we can. The people in the jerseys are the priority, absolutely.

Morgan: Oh, I love it. Well, I'm excited to keep seeing where your team goes.

Coach Heather: Yeah. Same. Me too, me too.

Heather Jacobs Start In Coaching

Morgan: Yes. Well, I'm curious, how did you get to be a coach? What brought you there?

Coach Heather: Oh, goodness. I'll try to give you the short version.

Morgan: No, you don't even need to do the short version, just tell us about it.

Coach Heather: As a college athlete, I changed my major. I was education because my mom works in education, and psychology because I love the human mind and motivation and all that... and then criminal justice. I was all over the place. I was always writing down match ups on my scouting report. Before our coach gave us our scout, I was like, "Maybe I'll guard this person, or maybe she'll guard me." I was always just super invested and engaged in opponents, their record, the stats, trying to be just really interested in it. The woman who recruited me actually coached a ton of camps, and everyone made fun of me because I took my evaluations very seriously. I wanted to make sure that... I wasn't going to circle one through five. I wanted to leave them feeling good with how they could get better, and getting them a little candy bar, or whatever. I loved it. I loved it.

I graduated and one of my teammates had transferred. She was going to be a student coach because she graduated... I mean, excuse me, she exhausted eligibility, but still had classes. She's was going to be a student coach. we were still working those same summer camps, and she's like, "Why don't you coach?" And I'm like, "How am I going to coach if you're coaching?" "You should go talk to my head coach and see what we can do." She is one of those people that's just very charismatic and persuasive, and calls her head coach right away, "Would you take Heather?" And he's like, "Sure, but I don't have any money." And I'm like, "Oh, of course. You want me to move so I can be your buddy and work for nothing." And she's like, "No, we'll figure it out. The volleyball coach needs an assistant." And I said, "Well, that's great. I've never played volleyball a day in my life."

She said to me, "If I get you an interview, will you just interview?" And I'm like, "Of course. I'm 21 years old, I have no job, and this seems like it could be a... Why not give it a go?" So, I don't know how this young coach took a chance on me, probably because it was late and she had exhausted options, but either way. She took a chance on me, and I took a job for $7,000 as a volleyball assistant and a volunteer basketball coach. Packed up my stuff and drove four hours north of my family. My parents thought I was crazy. I was super lucky that both head coaches were very different, and they both took care of me and helped me, connected me with people so I could get other jobs. I ended up working at a school, waiting tables, and being an assistant for two very dynamic and different coaches that took me under their wing and mentored me.

I wanted to apply to be an assistant at Boston college, and I thought I would go to Boston University. I just had no idea that, at that age, at the level I played at, with my experience, that you didn't just become an assistant at these high-level programs. They helped me identify what I wanted and my philosophy and what mattered to me. I was super lucky that I got a head coaching job. I had some ADs take a chance on me, and I became a head coach really young. Then got some players that worked hard. I didn't really know much. I knew that I wanted good people that worked hard, and because of that, those players made me look smarter than I am and we won some games.

I was excited to be there. I had no idea that I would... I never said, "Hey, I want to go coach Division I basketball." I just loved my kids. I loved being there every day, and we started winning. Then my AD brought me in. I was still 25 at the time then, and he said, "Heather, it's time." I said, "Time for what?" He's like, "You've set school records here. You need to look for the next step in your career." And I was like, "But no, we haven't done enough. My recruiting class is still young. We're returning player of the year." "No." And he's like, "Just apply." So I did, and then I moved on. I took my Division III job. Then I got a Division II. And then, both programs needed to be rebuilt, and we were able to do that. Once Wagner opened, I saw it as very... It paralleled both programs I had been in.

There needed to be some positive change and some different things. One thing led to another, and ADs, if I connected with them or institutionally my values aligned with theirs, for whatever the different reasons were, it was three, two, one, and now here we are. But I've had really good staffs, really good players. I have two of my former players on staff now, so it's-

Morgan: Oh, wow.

Coach Heather: ... fun for me and for them. I have players with babies and they're married and this and that, and that our head coaches. So, it's really cool just... You do, you get to be part of their journey. They give you that opportunity to share in their growth. When you get that phone call from someone who was playing for you saying, "Wow, I didn't understand," or, "Oh my goodness, this stuff... I'm going to do the same thing," or, "That thing that I thought was so annoying that you made us do, now I'm making my athletes do it too. My athletes to it too. All my players say thank you to the bus driver," or something silly that, at the time, they probably rolled their eyes, but now they look back and they're reflecting, they're doing those same things. So, that's pretty cool.

Morgan: Well, I bet it's one of the most rewarding things, seeing your athletes take away things and apply it into their lives. So, that's awesome that you've been doing that as a coach.

Coach Heather: Yeah. It's super cool. I'm really lucky like that. That's what I love about it. The wins and the losses, that it's when you can sit around with them when they're done and graduate and they're telling stories like, "Remember when you did this?" And I'm like, "No, I don't know." I'm like, "Do you remember when you do this?" Well, now how transfers and what they're doing in life. It's crazy to think how many years have gone by and how much time. It just goes by so fast, but it's extremely rewarding and I'm really grateful.

Morgan: Oh, I love that. Well, thank you. I love hearing coaches' stories and how they got where they're at. So, thank you.

Coach Heather: Yeah, of course.

Most Memorable Travel Experience for Heather Jacobs

Morgan: What are some of your most memorable travel experiences?

Coach Heather: Yeah. Well, as an individual? I'm Irish. I have a lot Irish-

Morgan: Oh, wow.

Coach Heather: ... in my background, in my family. So, when my grandfather passed away, he said he wanted us to take a family trip. That was a big thing. We were going to try to go while he was on his way, but it just wasn't possible. So, a little bit after I went with my family. I'm the oldest. I have a younger brother, younger sister. So, it was just the five of us. I got to bond, I got to connect with my family, my siblings, on a different level. You're international, so you weren't on your phone all the time. I really tried to unplug as much as I possibly could. I told recruits and my team, "I'm going," so I could share on the journey after, and I could be more present when I was there.

We saw everything. We took a whole loop around the whole country. It was great. It's an experience that we still talk about to this day. I've been to different countries and seen different things and done some personal travels, some travel with my friends, some travel with my teams in the past, but for me, family is super important. When you get caught up in go, go, go, you want to win the next game and you want to get the next big recruit, sometimes you can just sit back and be like, "This stuff, it matters. It's super important."

They're my biggest supporters, my biggest advocates. They take care of me in those moments when you're like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe... I was bad today as a coach. I need to be better." They're coaching the coach, and I'm really grateful for those really relationships I have with them. I was able to, not only see wonderful parts of the world, but just strengthen that dynamic and those bonds with them. So, it was a combination of everything, and to see where my mom's parents grew up and all that, it was a trip that I'll never forget.

Morgan: No, I love that. My family's from Amsterdam and Spain, places like that. I just think it's so cool to be able to go places and see new things and experience things with people that you love. It's just a different experience than staying where you're at.

Coach Heather: Oh, for sure. I mean, honestly, if I had another job that I wasn't coaching, I would be trying to travel around and give references and say, "This place is great." It's so humbling and it's so unique to see how different cultures are. Here at Wagner, we bring in Fellows. We brought in African Fellows last summer-

Morgan: Oh, cool.

Coach Heather: ... and they would come and they'd tell their story. Then they came... Once I found out they were on campus, I'm like, "Please come talk to our girls," and just what they grew up with and how lucky we are. We're just so small in the span of how big the world is, and there's so many beautiful things to see. I love traveling. So, I could go off on that for a while, so cool.

Morgan: I feel that. No, I'm glad we both have the mutual love of traveling.

Coach Heather: Absolutely.

One Thing No One Knows About Heather Jacobs

Morgan: Yes. That's awesome. Well, what is one thing that no one knows about you, Heather?

Coach Heather: Goodness. I guess I would probably say is that I'm a huge sap. I kind of alluded to that a little bit before. I will cry at a commercial. I mean, it's super embarrassing, and only people that know me... If it's a corny Hallmark commercial or a movie, they'll look over and laugh because I'm a sap for a good story. Whether or not it's romantic or it's motivation and anything that's good, anything good, or when people are doing good things or overcoming adversity, I start tearing up. So, when the girls would watch a movie on the bus and someone would be like, "Hey, were you crying?" I'm like, "Oh, you have no idea. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah."

Morgan: Yeah, that's so funny. Hey, that shows you have a good heart though.

Coach Heather: And that's the funny thing because, as a coach, you're so locked in and I'm so like, "We got to get this done." It's, "Got to get this done." When you see a vision or you see something for somebody that maybe they don't see it themselves, you want to help them get there or you want to execute that. People see that side and they're like, "Oh, wow. Wait, you're actually a big mush." People that know me, know it. There's a few that have seen it in action, but that's, I would say, probably a big thing that, if you asked a lot of people, they wouldn't know.

Morgan: Oh, really? Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that with us. Hey, that's good to know. When we see you out there, Coach, we'll be like, "Okay, we know. We know she's a sap."

Coach Heather: Yep. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Coach Heather Jacobs’s Advice To Future Athletes

Morgan: Oh, I love that though. Thank you. If you're an athlete wanting play for a team or a university in the future, what would your advice be to them as a player?

Coach Heather: Yeah. There's so many things. Are they already on the team or are they aspiring to make the team?

Morgan: Aspiring. Yeah.

Coach Heather: Okay. I would say, focus on what you can control and be your best self, and find out what separates you. No matter what you do or what you're doing, you can find a way to separate yourself. You could be small, but you could be the loudest. You maybe are not the best shooter, but you can be the best defender. I think when you focus on what you're good at and really emphasize that, and then focus on being a good teammate and having a great attitude and manufacturing energy is... those things are skills.

I think it's hard for young players to communicate and to be energy givers. When I'm in a gym or I'm at a workout or I'm watching a AU game and I see a team that has really great bench energy, I'm watching the team to see where it's coming from. I bet if you did a study on those individuals, they're probably very successful because that's something that's difficult, and again, it's something that's transferable in life, but it's invaluable to any team, the ability to have great energy, to uplift others. It's easy to be good when it's 70 and sunny, but when it starts raining, what are you going to be about? I forget who said it, but everybody wants to be great until they know what greatness actually requires, right? So, when you can come in and you can grind, and those individuals that really want to put the time in and that are going to continue to do that through adversity, and those people that are going to have great energy and focus on what they can control, I'd go with them any day.

Morgan: No, I love that. I agree. Teams full of individuals that have to come together, and the strengths all come together to help make the team. I love that.

Coach Heather: I think if you're committed to putting in the time, even though it's going to be hard and you're going to be mentally tough and overcome adversity, and you're going to have great energy, the other stuff will fall in line, right? Your skills will naturally improve. You're committed, so you're going to get better. I think that stuff is... Obviously, you need talented players and things, but as an athlete, you'll have a good career and a good experience if you focus on those.

The last thing I would say is, don't let anyone ever steal your joy. You're always going to be challenged, whether or not it's injuries, coaches, officials, God forbid something like this happens. There's going to be something that'll happen to every athlete, but you got to stay up, you got to stay resilient and stay with it. On the other side, your moment always comes, right? If you're going and you're staying resilient and nobody's stealing your joy, something will happen that that player in front of you maybe gets less minutes. So, stay ready. Stay ready in those sorts of things. I think all that stuff is super important.

Morgan: Wow. No, I love that. I played at a small junior college, and my second day of three-a-days, I sprained and fractured my ankle and-

Coach Heather: Oh, no.

Morgan: Yeah. I learned that so high key. So, I agree with that. I can totally agree with you.

Coach Heather: Yeah. That's so tough. Injuries, they're really tough. Yeah. Goodness.

Morgan: So, I need push through it, like you said, but I love that. Finding joy, even if adversity comes. So, I love that.

Coach Heather: Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. I think this is my joy.

Heather Jacobs’s Next Adventure

Morgan: Yeah. What's your next adventure in life, whether it be with your team or in your life? What's next?

Coach Heather: Yeah. I'm in the One Day at a Time. We have these online coaching webinars that we've been able to go and watch... I shouldn't say go, we can't go anywhere, but been watching those, and I'm a big reader. Actually, my family gives me a hard time that I usually am reading sports psychology or some sort of basketball book, but I have a new book that is not... Becoming. It's Michelle Obama. I'm going to try to venture out on non-basketball reading for a little bit and find a little bit of balance. If I had to say one thing I'd love to do, but didn't get into, it would be run the New York Marathon. I found out that I didn't get in, but that's my next personal adventure. Other than that, I'm just here, one day at a time. We got a good group coming back. We're excited. Maybe add a few more to the bunch, and trying to just get better and better every day and get a championship under our belt.

Morgan: Wow. Well, I'm excited for your team, and thank you so much for letting us get a glimpse into your team. So, thanks.

Coach Heather: Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Morgan: Yes. Well, thank you, and I'm excited to follow your team.

Wagner College Women’s Basketball

• Wagner College Women’s Basketball Team Twitter

• Coach Heather Jacobs Twitter

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Theme Song - I’ll Just Be Me by Gravity Castle